“Loyalist Trails” 2006-24 June 11, 2006

In this issue:
Loyalist Day Celebrations
Correction to “Molly Brant: a Two Act Musical Drama”
School Visit by Bicentennial Branch in Windsor
The Global Gazette, from Global Genealogy
Last Post: Ruth Estella Vanderlip
      + Queries can help: John Dease
      + Researching Military at a Specific Location and Time
      + Responses re Value of Blue Plate
      + Response re Johnson’s Bush
      + Response re Mathias Rose
      + Response re Matthias and Samual Rose
      + Response re Land Grants


Loyalist Day Celebrations

Oyez, UELers–

“The Non-revolting Americans. Tales of the United Empire Loyalist Struggles for freedom during the American Rebellion”. Presented: 12 noon, Belleville Public Library, 14 June 06, as a part of the celebrations of Loyalist Day in Ontario. The Ancient Order of Bedellii

BW Bedell, Writer and performer of poetry and prose

as impressionistic vignettes of Canadian History


[United Empire Loyalist]

An Impressionistic Vignette of the campaign waged against those who remained

Loyal to the Crown in the American Rebellion


PROGRAM: Preface: UEL Proclamation [King George Wants You].

I. Proclamation by the Committee of Public Safety. II. The Loyalist Declaration of Independence.

III. Hans Walden Meyer’s civil war. IV. The Albany Raid to kidnap General Schyler.

V. Bloody Hans, [A Patriot Chant]. VI. Safe House, [ Ludwig Brickman speaks].

VII. The Anti-Loyalist Acts, [New York – 1780]. VIII. Refugees, [A Loyalist Lullaby].

IX. Canaday-i-o, [UEL] X. Lord Dorchester.

XI. UEL MLA, [slavery]. XII. The Sedentary Militia.

XIII. Patriotism, [W.L. Mackenzie]. XIV. UEL Day, [Proclamation].

Correction to “Molly Brant: a Two Act Musical Drama” (see issue 2006-22)

This largely unknown yet momentous part of Canadian history is brought to life by the passionate singing voices of Eileen Strempel and Matthew Zadow, and the speaking skills of actor Peter Aston. Accompanying the singers are pianist Clare Gordon, and violinist, Joan Sutherland. Thanks to Jim Coles for his help in bringing this work to the stage. The performances are sponsored by First Capital Days Committee of Kingston.

The musical drama is scheduled for three performances at Memorial Hall in Kingston City Hall: June 25, 26, 27. All performances are at 7:00p.m.

Tickets may be purchased in advance at the Grand Theatre Box Office at 185 Sydenham Street, Kingston; by phone: 530-2050; or ordered online: www.grandtheatre-kingston.com Tickets:$12 in advance; $15 at door.

School Visit by Bicentennial Branch in Windsor

The branch took their displays and activities to the students recently. Here are some pictures of the event – when you go there, click on the “View album as a guest” button below the lead picture. Here are a few pictures from our day at General Isaac Brock Public School teaching the Loyalist Program.

…Kim Hurst

The Global Gazette, from Global Genealogy

Women of the American Revolution, By Shirley Gage Hodges.

Shirley discusses the importance of learning about the roles and history of women on both sides of armed conflicts. To read any or all Global Gazette articles, click here.

(Be sure to check out this week’s “Featured Website” that appears on the front page of The Global Gazette. The United Empire Loyalists Association of Canada has added a database of many original Loyalists and some details about them to their website.)

Last Post: Ruth Estella Vanderlip

Globe and Mail June 10, 2006, there is a death notice for Ruth Estella Vanderlip, sister of Dr. Vera Vanderlip, President UELAC 1986-1988. Recognition of her Loyalist past is recorded as “born in Brantford Township, Ruth was the second daughter of the late Fred Y. Vanderlip of U.E. Loyalist family roots, and Maud Mary (Fielden) Vanderlip; sister of Vera.” She was a long-time member of Timothy Eaton Memorial Church.


Researching Military at a Specific Location and Time

My inquiry to you was out of desperation ’cause I don’t know where to search for the info I want. Here’s the situation: My gr-gr-grandfather named ? Martin was “…in the artillery and stationed in Kingston at the time of his son’s birth.” according to the obituary of his son, James Martin. M gr-grandfather, James Martin, was born Aug. 5, 1819. What was Jame’s father’s name? Spouse? Origin in the UK? Can you lead me to some sources I could contact about him? Thanks for the help.

…Morgan Henika {Cawbidy AT aol DOT com}

Queries can help: John Dease

Thank you, Doug, for publishing my query; it brought in several interesting and informative responses from readers and helped in providing family background. I have passed these on to my fiance’s family, Victor W. and his mother Marie (nee Tetrault). It is strange how our ancestors’ paths have often crossed in the past – if we only knew how often this may happen.

I had come across the name John Dease at the end of a report written by one of my own ancestors John Pritchard – not a loyalist, had come from England and he worked for the NW Fur Trading Company, then settled in Lord Selkirk’s Red River colony; the report was to the Hudson Bay Company on the massacre of the male settlers at Seven Oaks – John was one of the very few survivors, and likely by virtue of the fact that the Metis leader Cuthbert Grant Jr. had worked for John at Ft. Souris and John may have known Cuthbert Grant Sr., who had Ft. Souris built.

Marie’s background includes Cuthbert Grant Sr. If I had not met Vic and his mother Marie, and I had not had an interest in history and genealogy, the name John Dease would still mean nothing to me, and I would not know of the acquaintances between my John Pritchard, and their John Dease and Cuthbert Grant Sr.

Also strangely enough, although not really when one thinks about the thousands/millions of people descended from two people over 800 years, I found when tracing Anne and Sir George Johnson’s background over time (a good part of it came from one of your wonderful readers) that my lineage and Vic’s Johnson lineage go back to common ancestors Richard “Strongbow” De Clare and Aioffe McMurrough in Ireland. But that is another story.

Could you please express my sincere and heartfelt thanks to your readers and particularly to contributors?

…Heather Traub Bruchet

Responses re Value of Blue Plate

I have one of these plates in brown and paid $29.00 for it in an Antique Shop. Don’t know if this will help. I know a few from the Hamilton Branch have them as well.

…Kim Hurst

Values vary depending on the source from $25.00 to a hundred dollars. Gloria Howard the Hamilton Treasurer won the plate at the conference with one ticket.

…Fred Hayward

If it’s the one with the Hamilton Monument on it, my daughter got me one of these plates at a local antique shop for about $5 about 6 years ago. I saw one on eBay sell for $3 about 3 years ago.

…Peter, Port Hope

About the place “Burslem” in England. When I was in 7th grade ( a long, long time ago) I researched Josiah Wedgewood for an Oratorical Speech. As I recall, he was referred to as a “Burslem Potter” – apparently people who worked in clay rather than the process of “bone china.” So if the plate you refer to was made in Burslem, it may be pottery…a different classification of plate making material. Maybe this will help if you make a google or some other kind of search.

Funny how you remember such odd names as Burslem

…Doris Ward

Response re Johnson’s Bush

In answer to your recent request in Loyalist Trails about the location of Johnson’s Bush, here’s a reply I received from Peter Betz, a well-known local historian.

“There are two versions of that story. I’m told a couple 19th century ‘historians’ pegged it as being the junction of several small roads southwest of the [Johnson] Hall property at a place known in the late 19th century as Keck Center (route 67 heading to Ephratah). However, Wanda [Burch, Curator of Johnson Hall] I believe told me it was actually closer to the Hall property, about three miles southwest of Johnstown where there is an early, small cemetery and the road (67) also has a left turn down to the 19th century village of Sammonsville. I will be talking to Wanda later today so let me confirm with her before you take any of this as fact.”

Peter has responded recently that he still hasn’t got a better definition; however, this zeroes in the location reasonably well.

Here’s a wee bit more from Peter Betz on the location.

“I also saw Wanda [Burch.] Re Johnson’s Bush, she holds with the belief JB was roughly at the intersection of 67 and a county road going south down the hill. This is southwest of the Hall about 4 miles by modern road but across country it would be only about 2. There is a small cemetery along the road which contains early residents of that immediate area.”

…Gavin Watt HVP UELAC

Response re Mathias Rose

Mathias Rose Jr. lived at Saratoga, Albany County before the war. His claim states he had 100 acres of leased land, 15 of them cleared and with several animals. See United Empire Loyalists, Second Report of Bureau of Archives, II, 1020&21.

He joined Burgoyne in 1777 and was taken prisoner in 1781. Rejoined in Canada in Jessup’s Corps and continued until disbandment.

A roll of Jessup’s Loyal Rangers for January 1783 at Riviere du Chene lists Mathias Rose as Private No.13 in Major Edward Jessup’s Company. He was 31 years old at the time and stood 5’9″. He was credited with six years and one month service.

It would take a lot of digging to find what regiment Mathias Jr. had served in during the 1777 campaign and, if that was of critical interest, I may be able to find it.

See Fryer and Smy, Rolls of the Provincial Corps…. Dundurn 1981 pp.82 & 84.

On this same roll, Mathas (yes, spelled that way) Rose is listed as Private No.19 in Captain John Peters’ Company of Invalids. He was aged 56, stood 5’9″ tall and was credited with two years and three months service.

His claim states that he also had leased lands at Saratoga prior to the war. This document gives lots of information. (II, 1026&27)

…Gavin K. Watt, HVP, UELAC

Response re Matthias and Samual Rose

Hi Diane! I am so happy to hear from you. I hope this message gets through to you. About the Roses… Do you know about the Rose Family Association headed by Christine Rose of San Jose, Calif.? I first made contact with her more than 20 years ago when I was researching my ex-husband’s family. He has a Samuel Rose born in 1793, perhaps in Vermont. Since I began working on my family (surname Lobdell), I found there are several who were Loyalists and the Rose name keeps popping up among them. Christine keeps a database of more than 900,000 names but her website does not allow for a keyword search. If you do not already know about her, she invites anyone to e-mail her at {Christine4Rose AT cs DOT com} and she will respond, or you can Google for the Rose Family Association and check-out her website. I am sure I have seen the name Mathias among her publications.& amp; nbsp; It would be interesting to know if your Samuel is the same as ours, and in the event he is, we will have more to share. Yes, my name is both German and Dutch in its meaning grandmother. I am 1/4 Dutch. My people were from Gelderland. Good luck and let’s keep in touch.

…Oma Lee Rose {o DOT l DOT rose AT att DOT net}

Response re Land Grants

Beth, I am assuming that you mean land grants in Canada.

It was common to offer soldiers a grant of land in the ‘waste lands of the Crown’ as a reward for their services; however, if the loyalist soldiers were promised this when they volunteered for service, they would have expected the land to be located in their own province, i.e. State, not the wilds of Quebec.

My take on this is that Carleton made the decision after the Peace that provision had to be made for the loyalists crowded into New York City and his concern resulted in the settlement in the Maritimes and West Indies.

Similarly, Haldimand was very worried about the thousands of loyalists in Quebec and made a unilateral decision to allow settlement in western Quebec, later Ontario. Not very many loyalists were interested in settling in old Quebec where the French land tenure system prevailed.

But, let’s not forget that one of the terms of the peace treaty was that the loyalists would be allowed to return to their homes and be compensated for their losses. This term was never honoured in the United States. However, everyone had to find out that the Americans were going to ignore the term before decisions to settle loyalists elsewhere were made.

So – as to timing – I would say 1782 to 83. That’s my guess, but I’m sure that more precise information can be uncovered.

…Gavin K Watt, HVP, UELAC